I’m writing this one in “advance” -although most of the formalities are completed w.r.t this “transaction”, the “final flourish” still remains.
(At this moment, I just got the final flourish, and while I wasnt going to call him a flat out liar, his latest response to PayPal saying “I never responded to him” is utter and total BS). HA!
(not at the time of writing this)
(and just so you know, he didn’t actually say that, but his lies and the general “tenor” of his communication once he did not get the quick fix he was looking for said it all. )
And the “pissed off taxpayer” thing isn’t my own – it’s what Major General Michael once told me about Uncle Bob during the slanging contest WAY back in the day … When yours truly was young, wild, we had Dongguan Expat, yours truly and the Major drank tons of beer every night, Uncle Bob was sort of “caught in the middle” before he first got the red ass with Michael and then myself (given my English name in China is Michael, well …!)
It was politics, I believe, where Uncle Bob went off on me, then I did on him x 1000 – and then Michael said what he did – privately, not publicly. The consumnate NATURAL marketers he is to this date hehe, I’m sure, much lik eyours truly is.
Some of us are just … naturals at it!
Anyway … Uncle Bob and myself made up years later.
Lover’s tiff it wasn’t tho, hehe, despite being blamed by my wife at the time that “I spend more time emailing the good Uncle than I do with her”.
Somtimes, talking about cars and women is more fun. But my wife had a point too. Hehe.
Anyway, the “great” Fotis Chat – or Sir Fotis …. what can I say.
I should have trusted my gut.
Remember the dude I introduced to you in one of my past emails?
Well, his emails etc to me (initial ones) were FINE.
But nothing that would convince me to promote him either way or, not . I.e.. “no feelings” either way.
So I asked him to send his site, products, who he was etc etc.
He did that.
And while his book on Amazon – again, no feelings either way, but given what he said about being in biz for a while, hey – I don’t know, maybe worth a shot for some, maybe not for others? I don’t know, and said as muhc – both in the email and to him before sending out the email.
But his website?
Personally, yours truly would never ever sign up for something like that.
Because, well, and he’s going to blast me for saying this, it’s run of the mill and typical “template” style and for a guy that claims he’s IT, well … (computer engineer).
Yours truly was computer Science back in school (when I did show up for class and got something other than Fs in CSC 204, lol – or flunked all summer classes because “I drank too many BEAST ICE” – that was my friend, hehe).
But either way, it’s not about his site – its about the products.
Then again, the site needs to have SOME originality, and other than his pictures, his marketing etc(which is weak to me) – there is NONE.
Like a staple copy and paste basically which is probably what he did i.e. buy a template, and bingo.
Not what I’d do, but hey …
I’m not being paid to dispense marketing advice here (though I just did) – and even if I would, he wouldn’t agree, and thats fine. Not everyone agrees with me.
So, I promoted him, he was happy as could be with the introduction, and then of course …
“Oh, baby. Oh, baby! Then it fell apart! Then it fell apart!”
Like it always does . . .
He started complaining about the number of sign ups – apparently “one” which increased to “two” after I Told him to wait (hey – you guys know how it with Inboxes full of my emails waiting to be cleared!).
Not to mention everyone I keep on this list is high quality. We don’t sign up for everythign and anything. I’m paranoid about NOT giving out my email address at all because of the amount of marketing spam that shows up, and I unsubscribe to 10 plus email that mysteriously somehow “sign me up” daily and my readers are the same.
If you’re true quality though, they’ll stay on your list, Fotis.
But it might take time.
And I told him that.
He kept carping on instant results. Then wanted a refund (when obviously that was the first thing I mentioned to him even before I said I’d do up an intro for him) because apparently “a little something extra for our readers from Greece” to him means that I exclusively meant it “only for people in Greece”.
Clearly Fotis needs to be better schooled in how “we” (and I don’t mean just 0 Excuses Fitness) speak.
Personally, the only reason I really was comfortable about promoting him was Ben Settle mentioned him once as being a member of his email players group.
I don’t know if he is right now.
But … he doesn’t seem to have learned a lot at all from Ben (or from me for FREE – despite the plethora of very valuable indeed advice I gave him for FREE).
In short, dude had “buyer’s regret”. And in short, he needs to “suck it up and man up and cut his losses”. In fact, he said as much in his email reply to me.
Rahul, it’s OK.
I don’t agree with the “Nah, I dont think “for our readers from Greece” would have turned off potential buyers/subscribers” part, since I can imagine people taking it too literally, especially since it was at the beginning of the email.
However, I consider it my fault for not asking to check the email before loading it. I’d have pointed out that part and asked for a revision or a different wording.
If I asked for a re-send that kept out any reference to Greece and explained that country doesn’t matter, how much would it cost?
(I told him. What he wanted was “freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee” – so therefore his later rants).
Thanks for the info, Rahul.
We’re on the same wavelength regarding list building. I try paid methods right now (hence why I asked for the email promo) but over the long term, organic methods seem to be the best; especially with our No B.S. style of writing/communication.
Funny that you were an I.T., I was a computer engineer in uni.
Regarding yesterday’s email, it bombed and I got 1 sub. I didn’t mind since every business has risks.
… Both from his emails to me. I haven’t included the full text for the latter here as it is “self repeating” in terms of what I’m saying.
…. I didn’t want to promote him again.
But, hey, gotta help a brother out so I gave him the cost (a reduced cost) – and so forth.
I got this (I believe last night, I opened it this morning at my 11 AM usual time).
Decided I don’t want a resend.
On the other hand, looking at what happened, I’d like to ask for a refund.
A few points as to why:
1) I specifically said “I wanna focus 100% on my English business moving forward”
2) Yet the P.S. and the intro of two emails, say “Guys from Greece” and “you know I said in the PS I had a “little something extra” for our readers from Greece.” respectively. Anyone reading this would think “This is for people in Greece”
3) As a result, I only got 2 people to sign up, who are from Greece. Contrast this with the multiple sign ups when buying a mailing to other lists. This further proves that non-Greek people, weren’t interested and didn’t keep reading
4) I mentioned this issue and got 3 email replies. But I didn’t see the issue made in point 2 being acknowledged – that people not living in Greece would stop reading after the “I have a little something extra for our readers from Greece” parts.
5) Instead I got a reply that further talks about customers in Greece (“Nah, I dont think “for our readers from Greece” would have turned off potential buyers/subscribers – my list has actual customers from Greece, and they’ve bought from others too – not just me before giving me the “you’re the real deal” recommendation (see the reviews page)”) Again, in point 1 I said “I wanna focus 100% on my English business moving forward”. I didn’t say anywhere “let’s focus on people in Greece” or asked to write anything calling them out
6) You suggested waiting a few days for people in your list to “catch up” with the emails. This also contradicts my experience with other lists. Usually I’ll get 80% of the sign ups the first day, even when list owners email a lot.
7) I waited and I’m still stuck at 2 subscribers. Again, this further proves the point that people outside of Greece didn’t care.
You mentioned a no refund policy.
But since I hope we’re bargaining in good faith, I don’t consider it valid because the mailing wasn’t delivered the way it should have been.
Yours truly – –
Thanks for your email. I dont agree that the email wasn’t delivered the way “it should have been”. With regard to point #2, perhaps that is a misinterpretation on your part – I certainly do not think “a little something extra for our readers from Greece” means exclusively for those from Greece. You can check with others, I suppose (I realize what you’re thinking right about now, but if you are indeed thinking what I am it’s “silly” so please do not even bring it up) – but that is what it is. Thats how people “speak” in real life.
However, I was very clear about the no refund policy before you paid – I mentioned this upfront, so I do apologize for your “consternation” at what I consider the mis-communication but no refunds – sorry. I can send out another email the way you want it (verbatim – however if you look at what I Said before you paid the first time, I did say I’d do an introduction for “free” for you – which you “loved” per your words beneath), but the $<chopped> charge would apply. As for the introduction, it was done up to help you – not what you imply i.e. to “only target people from Greece”.
You’ve yourself said as well “it was your fault you didnt ask for the email I sent to check”, which it obviously was – I mentioned the “intro” part before sending the email out (if you weren’t happy with that – you should have told me at that point).
With regard to the non sign ups, sometimes thats how it is. As you said yourself below, it’s about taking a risk. Sometimes it pays off, sometimes it doesn’t (I still don’t think it hasn’t quite “not” paid off for you – but I realize you don’t agree, so I won’t debate that further).
However, no refunds – I made that very clear – and that is there clearly in the site policy as well, so apologies, but that won’t be possible. I’m happy to work with you a bit on the cost of the resend if you want, but refunds – no way – that is a clear “in stone” policy I have for everyone (which again, is why I mentioned it first thing before even getting into anything else), everything (no matter who the person is) and that applies here as well.
My own thoughts would be to “wait and watch” – sometimes things aren’t as clear as “sign ups to the list or the number of sign ups” i.e. you could get 10 sign ups which pay you $39, and then one down the road that gives you $500 or more . . . But anyway, thats how I do things (and this “slow and steady” approach is obvious – I believe it’s mentioned below as well), so no refunds, sorry. But I will tell you that some of my best prospects have come from years of “waiting” – but again, I realize you do not agree, so lets stick to facts i.e. no refunds = no refunds, and that was mentioned very clearly at the outset so thats the way it is for that, however, if you wish, I can work with you a bit on the cost for the resend, but thats about it. Perhaps we can work out something for multiple re-sends, I dont know – up to you, really . . .
Let me know your thoughts.
…. and this, my friend, is why I rarely, if ever do paid promos for ANYONE regardless of who.
Way too many “expectations” people have even when they’re told “if people sign up or not is not what you’re paying for or my responsibility).
He keeps complaining about “readers from outside Greece didn’t care” (apparently the low sign ups “prove it”).
(I won’t even get into how “childish” that sounds – I mean even if it WAS from people from “Greece alone” – I’m yet to figure out why someone reading it from outside the nation of Greece wouldn’t … ah, but stupidity has no limits, bounds, and knows ZERO reason
“Pissed off taxpayer” given the state of the economy there makes sense, by the way!)
(not to mention all the debt defaults etc they’re going through. Hey, I feel you Fotis, but none of that applies here).
(back to it though – these are random edits I’m putting in while scrolling through this behemoth)
Um, sorry to bust your bubble Bubba, but it doesn’t – I’ve mentioned one reason above, and a very salient one.
Second, maybe readers in general just didn’t CARE.
I’ve got high quality people on my list, that have invested a LOT in me – with me.
I give a LOT of them very generous discounts as well. (much like I gave you for round #2).
Don’t believe me? Ask, and ye shall know …
And believe me, I freely mention others in my books and courses, along with their websites, and my customers come back to me saying they’d rather buy from me.
(Don’t believe me? Buy, and ye shall know, hehe)
THAT is the sort of person I sell to, friend.
I don’t sell to everyone and anyone and certainly not impulse buyer who I do ALL I can to REPEL.
Which I do pretty well.
But I wonder if Fotis has considered what yours truly, marketing genius (I know, nothing like a bit of Tom Tomming) said about his site.
Believe me, I KNOW what I BE Talking about there (and like I Said, template sites may work – but they have to be original – his is run of the mill. I’ve seen bazillions like it).
It’s a vibe, bro.
And people feel it, especially, as a great friend Dwayne once told “those of us that have been around the block can smell it – a MILE away”.
I gave him a chance. I shoul dhave gone with my gut and said NO.
I don’t think Sir Fotis remembers the deal wasn’t about how many signs up or if at all, if he’s bothered to read my Dollars vs Pennies analogy up there (I wonder what he learned from Ben? IF he did? And no, yours truly has never been a Ben Settle customer, I just think the dude is the real deal in terms of what he does) …
Yours truly, actually, is a natural Ben Settle, Matt Furey, or perhaps better in some regards (since those “other sites” – ah, but we’ll let that roll for now).
There is a reason former Samurai’s – police officers – and others who’ve read plenty of other books and done plenty of other workouts and continue to call me the real deal.
Blow Zoe Bozo from the UK could probably write a tome on that! (the other site) …
Anyway … Bozo’s tomes are done with tongue if you get my drift, but back to Sir Fotis (no, I’m not in the least manner equating him with Bozo Schofield) – I don’t know, perhaps the way his email was written?
I’m aware I’m giving him two things here – more publicity (for free, hehe) – and free marketing advice which he’ll scoff at.
But you know me!
I gotta say it.
So by all means, since our friend seems to be so “consterened” – let me know what YOU thought of HIS site – and I’ll post it here. Maybe that will “get him off my back” once he gets some feedback other than from yours truly, but then again, he probably wouldn’t listen anyway. Hehe.
I sort of suspect your feedback will be the same as mine, but hey. Who am I to say it.
I also don’t think Sir Fotis knows the value of me just mentioning him on this list – repeatedly. I could tell him, but he seems to be equating with what John, a great customer said once about certain “providers” i.e. take the money and run.
Far from it.
My customers and indeed all I do biz would sometimes say I take too long to “take the money”!
Once I do though, it’s … well, a done deal.
And that, my friend is that.
Pissed off taxpayer or not, thats how it will be.
As for the free publicity he’s getting – hey. He’s a good guy. Just needs some more learning from the school of hard knocks. (not to mention he needs to learn that dishonesty isn’t something that works long term, or at all).
Ben did it himself, I suspect (school of hard knocks). Yours truly did too. Matt did too.
Sometimes, my friend, we have to take a step back and learn from our mistakes.
Anyway, thats enough on that.
Write back – – let me know what you think!
PS – Here is what he said about the initial intro –
Thanks Rahul, loved the intro and thanks for going the extra mile. I just love working with people who understand we’re in the relationship game and put a lil more effort.
I got the “Doing what you were truly MEANT To” email but not anything else, so I guess it will be the next one.
Regarding if I want anything, I’m just curious about something: How do you grow your list. I’m particularly interested in you since you’re an aggressive emailer and I’d guess you get more than average unsubscribes. So I’d like to discover what you do for list building.
I so do NOT do business with “Vacillating Thomases that cannot make up their mind or that swing from believer to non” …
I really think he thought the $250 covered more advice (it didn’t) and that I’d do it anyway because “he paid me” (the desperation people have these days – I’m the precise and polar opposite).
(I told him, but I don’t think I told him anything he doesn’t know already, hehe).
I really too think that the emails he got “down the line:” upset him a bit because he might have thought I’m truly the real deal, hehe. Hey. That don’t jive well with most people!
Anyway … enough on that.
PPS – Oh, and I wasn’t going to write all this, period. I wrote it this morning because my gut told me he was going to be one of those “instant fix asses” I do so much to avoid but I did not think he would flat out lie when he told Paypal “I stopped replying to him”, which is utter BS.
Ya’ll on this list know my policy on bullying.
HE seems to be one!
And even if he isn’t, lying? No way, my friend. Just not acceptable.
He clearly has no business for one – and while I won’t provide further input and therefore free marketing advice for him (which is the real reason he never got as many sign ups he’s bitching about which was never ever promised in the first place) – there is stands.
And as of now, I TAKE BACK ANY AND ALL recommendations I made for the dude. What he paid for I.e his one time recommendation will STAY on the site. Why?
Like I’ve said so many times before, some monuments to idiocy must remain.
PPS #2 – I’m sure he thinks this email will get him more business. LOL. By all means, hey!